Callie Browning: " I think the world is becoming more open to the idea that Caribbean novels are quality literature with relatable attributes."
She’s from Barbados, but she isn’t singer Rihanna. Callie Browning is the author of “The Girl With The Hazel Eyes”, one of my favorite reads of 2020. This book has been a hot issue in the Caribbean bookstagram universe for quite some time now and the hype is so well-deserved. It was even listed as one of Oprah Magazine’s 16 Caribbean books to add to your reading list this past summer. Callie Browning already won a couple of awards for her writing such as the NIFCA silver and bronze award in 2016 and in 2019 and got long listed for the 2019 Brooklyn Caribbean Lit Festival short story award. I’m so glad we got the chance to talk more about what being a self-published Caribbean writer is today, her writing process and some #streamcaribbean.
“The Girl with the Hazel Eyes” is your first novel, but it's far from being your first attempt at writing. You're an award-winning author. When and how did you start writing?
I wrote poetry as a child (it wasn't very good) so I've been doing it as long as I can remember, primarily because I'm able to better express myself with the written word. My short stories and books have always been a reflection of the thoughts and issues that present themselves to me. They're deeply reflective of society and the human condition, except that I've fictionalized them as I've grown older. I remember when e-mail and instant messaging first became a 'thing' that I would write these long messages/e-mails about all kinds of things to friends. Bless them for not pointing out how crazy I seemed. (laughs)
There’s an ongoing and growing discussion about representation in literature. Growing up what kind of book did you read and did you feel represented?
I'm a fiction girl, always have been. As a reader, especially one who couldn't afford books growing up, I leaned on the public library. I read lots of classic fiction (because that's what libraries tend to have) which may explain why I've always found historical fiction to be incredibly comforting and I tend to seek that out the most. I read books about families settling America's western frontier and traipsing down country lanes in England. The irony is that I didn't realize that I wasn't represented until I was fully grown, simply because everything - TV, movies, books, magazines - reinforced those ideas and it was difficult to imagine a world outside of the reality presented in these books. Even Caribbean books presented a reality that seemed a little different to me - Barbados doesn't have mountains like Jamaica or rivers like Dominica or Trinidad so the scenarios presented in these books (primarily written by men) always seemed unrepresentative as well.
I see. It’s a bit different from me because Guadeloupe has various landscapes, so I have yet coming across a natural setting I’m not familiar with. Let's talk about your writing process. Do you have a specific routine before, while or after a writing session?
I am what they call a discovery writer and I imagine that I'm a very disorganized one as well. I tend to have one idea, one scene in my head and somehow I manage to make a whole story about it. A lot of these thoughts tend to come to me at night after I've eaten. Once the world is quiet and my brain can wander as much as it wants, then these scenes and dialogues come to me effortlessly. “The Girl with the Hazel Eyes” started off as one thought about an exiled woman who meets a young lady and is horrid to her. Then out of the blue, a vision came to me about her childhood. Miraculously, I cobbled together the two of those things and made a whole book. I've been able to get a lot of writing done during the pandemic so it has been amazing. I managed to finish the first draft of my new book during my country's lockdown. I'm currently editing and trying to get it ready for release this year.
Speaking of “The Girl With The Hazel Eyes”, which I love by the way, the story is mainly set up in Barbardos during the independence struggle era. You weren’t even born back then, so you couldn’t write from your personal experience. How did you come up with such a detailed storyline ?
I took 3 years to write “TGWTHE”, and about 6 months of that was spent on research. I've heard a lot about those times from my mother and godmother so some of it I knew based on years of those conversations. I watched some YouTube videos, went to the library, did some digging online and also went on historical tours to get the information.
You self-edited and self-published this novel. Can you tell us a bit more of the process as someone living in the Caribbean?
Editing is not for the faint of heart. You have to shift personalities from writer to editor so you don't become too attached to characters and parts of the plot and do the book justice. As someone living in the Caribbean, professional editing services online may seem a bit more prohibitive because of the exchange rate. For example, in Barbados, one US dollar is two Barbados dollars so the price is literally double. Not saying that anyone should skimp on editing costs because editing is so critical to the finished product, but it does heavily impact how well your finished book is packaged in the end. Not to mention the fact that your editor should have a good eye and a sensitivity to Caribbean lifestyles so that the story doesn't waver in its authenticity. The sad reality is that we don't have many successful examples of authors who are accessible and who can help guide us in this process. Luckily, some of the Caribbean indie authors out there are resilient and continue to persist in making great art that will be successful examples for others to follow. Caribbean books are starting to get recognition because bloggers and reviewers out there are realizing the incredible value of diverse and own voices stories. It would be great if we had more advice in terms of how to effectively market and format our books. The book world is incredibly dense in terms of what one needs to succeed and there is no template or magic bullet. In terms of marketing, one thing that's critical is a good book; word-of-mouth tends to be the most effective marketing tool. And it doesn't hurt to have a beautiful cover either. Outside of that, you have to really find people who want to read your book and who will enjoy it.
Now let’s really talk about the plot and the characters. Young Susan and Old Susan are badass but in different ways that I think reflect their experiences. Was her character clearly defined since the beginning?
Ha ha. Yeah, they are badass. Only old Susan was clearly defined in my head. But as I wrote, I realized that the sensitivity and youth of young Susan really endeared me to her too. As a child/teenager she was the kind of character who was timid about some things because of inexperience but that didn't dim her fire in any way. As a discovery writer, I didn't have a clear idea about her character but I have to admit that I am in love with the way the character turned out. She's strong but sweet, sometimes shy but ambitious. And more than anything else, I love that she's not afraid to look herself in the mirror and admit she's wrong.
Let's take a moment to appreciate Kenneth. You know, in k-drama land, there's the 2nd lead syndrome because there's usually a love triangle and lead girl always falls for gorgeous lead guy who treats her badly. And you have 2nd lead guy who is just the perfect decent guy. I feel like Kenneth is the lead guy with the 2nd lead qualities. Is it just me or Caribbean literature doesn't provide us easily Caribbean men being basic descent beings? How did you develop Kenneth character?
Caribbean literature, and literature on a whole, is very committed to stereotypes. The Kenneth character came to me organically and I was so glad he did. Many readers have written to say that Susan's and Kenneth's love is a love they wished they had (even men!). I wanted characters who are decent people instead of stereotypically good or bad people with no real grey area. Kenneth is a good man, who's both vulnerable and proud and I really wanted to bundle up and present the beautiful characteristics of so many Caribbean people I've met in my life.
You know he says my favorite line of the book. What was your favorite scene or line to write? No need to be very specific because we don't want to spoil the fun. But what did you write that made you go "yaaas"? And on the contrary is there something you're still not satisfied with?
YUP! I know you're a huge Kenneth fan. Ignatious Grimes was my "yassssss!" character when writing. I love how he straddles the line of good and bad for every single thing he does. In terms of a portion of the plot I'm most proud of, I'd have to say it was Susan's relationship with her mother. I literally cheered over that potato situation. We all love an underdog who manages to make it. But those situations don't always take place in the form of bullies in the playground. Sometimes they're the situations life hands us. When we have an underdog situation that isn't very clear cut, our heart bleeds a little bit more. BUT when we have someone in our corner who won't let us down and who fights for us tooth and nail? That's amazing.
Oooh, right ! Ignatious Grimes. That was a great character indeed. And that mother-daughter relationship was so well crafted… I also feel like Caribbean moms are usually portrayed as tough women without their reasons for being tough being explained. Okay, let me stop or I’ll end up really spoiling the story. So, as you know I'm out here pushing the #streamcaribbean. Even more now than never as I read about other islands and music helps setting the mood, but I don't know much about Barbados music except for Rihanna (I'm sorry). Which Barbadian songs would you recommend to set the mood for "TGWTHE"?
There is no shame at all in listening only to Queen Ri! To set the mood for “The Girl with the Hazel Eyes”, I'd have to recommend songs like Beautiful and Unspoilt by Sheryl Hackette. It reminds me of the love story between Susan and Kenneth. In terms of how Susan feels about missing Barbados while in exile, My Country to Me by Mark Lorde is a great musical representation of that. As for the drama with Joan and Susan fighting over Winslow, The Mighty Gabby perfectly encapsulates that in Needles & Pins.
What would be your dream cast for the film or series adaptation?
Gosh...I've thought about this and I'm so glad you asked! Rihanna would be Lia. I'd love someone like Viola Davis for the role of Susan (the only problem is that Susan is light brown so Queen Viola wouldn't fit because presenting the colourism issues in the book wouldn't work). I think Winston Duke could do an amazing job playing either Kenneth or Winslow. Maybe Lawrence Fishburne for Ignatious Grimes.
The world needs more Winston Duke. I can totally see him as Kenneth. I was thinking Jimmy Jean-Louis could be a good Winslow. Suave yet dangerous. (laughs) Okay. Final question! You started your own digital magazine: Muse. Can you tell us about your magazine?
“Muse by Callie Browning” is a passion project for me. It's available by free subscription and it's all about the luxurious literary lifestyle as I like to call it. My aim is to make reading fun, accessible and diverse. I like to talk about trends, do giveaways, show people what I'm working on, fun places I've visited and focus on bookish topics that some people may not be aware of. Sometimes I even include recipes for the foods that I love to eat while I'm reading or writing. I started Muse because I didn't come across anything else like it and I felt like it was something I wanted to read. I think the world is becoming more open to the idea that Caribbean novels are quality literature with relatable attributes. The scenes in the books may be different, but the characters are still people who are driven by all kinds of interesting motivators and I believe that's beautiful and should be embraced.
Bonus question: what comes to your mind when you read/hear "Karukerament"?
It reminds me of Barbados' Kadooment festival which is a carnival parade/street party.
Thank you, Callie ! You can follow her on Instagram and Facebook. Check out her magazine “Muse by Callie Browning”.